Thing that worry me about demo?

[schuee]

Hi, first of all i would like to say i have just bought every horseracing game that has come out from Omnivsion Sport of Kings to Hrm and Starters orders with many other titles in between that are not worth mentioning, some very bad some good, the thing that worries me about the demo is you have a 2500 metre race with 2 year olds going around in it, it doesnt happen.The track record is 2min 33 for 2500 metres at Flemington and some people are running sub 20 i no its easy level but usally a good indication of what coming.A 2 year old only has a hand full of starts when its career starts and will run from 900 up to 1600(90% will run up to 1200) metres max and that usaully a small field and there last run before they spell.
The game looks great the track is fantastic the horses look good, but just little things like this bother me, yer i will still get the game but please try and make it as accurate as possible.

[jrdoa]

To keep this topic alive, I just played my first game via the demo and had this result. I bet on a horse to place and the horse finished third (show). It showed that I won my bet and paid out.

Other than that, very good graphics.

[INTERACTIVE]

In aussie racing a place is a top 3 finish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rufus001]

INTERACTIVE is right. I know in the USA you have win(1st) place (1st/2nd) and show (1st/2nd/3rd) but in Aus and NZ its win (1st) and place (1st/2nd/3rd). There is no show. Which is normally the case with horse's I back. They have no show whatsoever. :)

[ak47]

yes and its alot better for a video game to have the aussie/nz placing format, as that means there is 1 less betting option for stuff around with

i hated in gallop racer when i wanted a place bet i had to hit show aswell

a good question though - IS THERE AN NTD

i'd love to hit betting party and have my mates jumping for joy, and then the dreaded NTD show up!!!!:D

[INTERACTIVE]

Show bets allways seemed a bit to me anyways.

[jrdoa]

In aussie racing a place is a top 3 finish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oops, my mistake. I apologize.

[Austbloke]

Oops, my mistake. I apologize.

Forgiven........ Just don't do it again :p

[ak47]

ok i have finally seen a race via the youtube - i cant get the demo

few questions

1. Camera angles - how many race angles, how many replay cameras, and can u pan the camera mid race to see the rest of the field

2. I see an auto-replay kick in after the finish - is there a full replay feature, that u can select after the race and watch them jump from the gates

3. does bumping horses effect ur horse in a negative way

After watching my first race, i am extremely impressed overall but even moreso by the audio implementation - the commentary is class, and the thunder of the turf is alot more authentic than Gallop or G1

IMO we are onto a good winner here, and the main thing that could make or break this is the difficulty......hopefully we need to breed monsters in order to claim top prize on hardest difficulty, or atleast breed monsters to win bigger races which unlock the monster AI horses, and then breed with them.

[Austbloke]

ok i have finally seen a race via the youtube - i cant get the demo

few questions

1. Camera angles - how many race angles, how many replay cameras, and can u pan the camera mid race to see the rest of the field

2. I see an auto-replay kick in after the finish - is there a full replay feature, that u can select after the race and watch them jump from the gates

3. does bumping horses effect ur horse in a negative way


1. You can do 4 different camera angles in race moving from basically the horses view back 3 more steps. The default view is from the jockeys view which is the 2nd camera angle. To change the view you press the c button while racing. You can also look left & right while in running to do this you press z to look left & x to look right.

I haven't found a way to change the camera angle in the replay after the race. It seems to just pan around randomly



2. Yes but it doesn't seem to pick the horses up from the jump. It seems to pick them up at about the 2000 or 2200 mark on my machine. It might have something to do with how much ram you have as to how much it can cache of the race. I have 2Gigs so maybe some of the guys with less might not see as much of the replay?



3. Bumping horses slows your speed & progress. You really do need to find clear running. One other thing is I did comment that running wide doesn't seem to affect horses. Since posting that I have run a lot more races & I'm no of the opion that it does. Although you can still win being stuck out on a limb for most of the race. This will probably change once we can play medium & hard.

[INTERACTIVE]

austbloke, so i think you should be able to win if wide all the way, just like you can in real racing if your on a good horse. Out wide you have the chance to run at your own pace, dont get bumped, and can time your run to perfection without interference.

[ak47]

austbloke, so i think you should be able to win if wide all the way, just like you can in real racing if your on a good horse. Out wide you have the chance to run at your own pace, dont get bumped, and can time your run to perfection without interference.

you would wanna be on a good horse

out wide means no cover and more distance

was it Shane dye whom was crucified for running 20 wide in the Caulfied some years ago on a Freedman horse which started odd on favourite (Veandicross maybe)

the ideal race is to run on the fence, never get checked, never get bumped, and get a clear run when required approx 400m...unless of course the ground going is shocking on the inside, but this video game wont reflect this effect.

if ur on a front runner ur not going to run wide ever in this game unless u want a challenge, or the first bend is 50m outside the gates and ur in barrier 36.

and i know at the valley, if u get a clear run from the back along the rail you will carve up the horses running wide at the 400m...simply because that bend is sharp and ur on the inside with a clear run

[Austbloke]

austbloke, so i think you should be able to win if wide all the way, just like you can in real racing if your on a good horse. Out wide you have the chance to run at your own pace, dont get bumped, and can time your run to perfection without interference.

The only time you will see horses sitting wider then 3 wide in Australian racing is if the track is really Heavy. Where the going is often better out wider.

I know that in Europe you tend to see it more often but not in Australia. I think racing in Australia & NZ is run at a much truer pace then overseas. If you watch a replay of the Melbourne cup they will have sorted themselves out after 400 or 500 meters with only a few horses stuck 3 wide & the punters on them cursing the jockey for being there
.

[Austbloke]

was it Shane dye whom was crucified for running 20 wide in the Caulfied some years ago on a Freedman horse which started odd on favourite (Veandicross maybe)


It was veandicross & it was one of the best good things beaten ever.... That ride was a shocker.

[Austbloke]

and i know at the valley, if u get a clear run from the back along the rail you will carve up the horses running wide at the 400m...simply because that bend is sharp and ur on the inside with a clear run

Isn't that the truth... Its one track that makes jockys go early because that stright is so short. Only good horses win coming wide at the valley

[INTERACTIVE]

Some horses perfer a smooth ride and need room, thus they run wide. Often the track out wide is also in better condition to the rails. Other horses need to be paced perfectly to win.

There are other times you dont want to be on the rail

If you go for a rails run at mooney valley and you get it, its all sweet, but if you dont its all over as the horses on the outside are flying just before the bend, odds are a couple of tired leaders will drop back along the rails, hamper or block your run. And if you get even just hampered with only 300m to go in a race its a tough ask to get the horse going again, and then also ask it to run down horses running away & lengths in front of it, with just a short distance left in the race.

Any good jockey will tell you the key to winning at mooney valley is making a strong run 800m from the finish out wide so the slowing horses dont block your path

And believe me they run 6, 7 and 8 deep at the valley, and theres a reason for that.

Sandowns another track were you dont want to be on the rails a couple back around the home turn, leaders tiring and swoopers coming around the outside down the hill. Getting shuffled back on the rails gives the horse almost no chance.

Basically it hard to win when you have to stop in your tracks and start again, you lose more distance than what it appears to the eye. Most horses dont like stopping and starting, being reined this way and that, and having boots stuck into them to take gaps along the rails. there is a lot more to riding racehorses than simply getting runs along the rails.

The jockeys aim is to get to the post first, no extra points for rails runs.

Of course ideally you will get a run along the rails, horses will move out of your way just as you want them to, and you will get to the front and win the race. But if your a jockey relying on that to happen to make your living, you aint ganna be a jockey for long. In the real world horses run wide and they still win.

[Mr R Bogglesworth]

ok i have finally seen a race via the youtube - i cant get the demo

What did u type in on youtube to see this race?, cheers

[sunline55]

It was veandicross & it was one of the best good things beaten ever.... That ride was a shocker.


He was Trained in Aussie by John Wheeler from the Taranaki and by his owner Chris Turner when in New Zealand.

[Mr R Bogglesworth]

What did u type in on youtube to see this race?, cheers

Anyone know? because i would like to see a race run with out the game freezing up and running slow.

[INTERACTIVE]

It was strange ride on veandercross, but even stranger was the fact that when he tracked to the outside fence, and then went around the home turn against the outside rail, he actually appeared to pull clearly away from the field, and it was only when he tired in the last 100m that he was caught on the line. (just, with a big gap to the 3rd horse).

Imagine what a legend the veandercross would of been had it actually won the race!!!!!!!!!!!!

[INTERACTIVE]

And another point about running wide, if you draw the outside, and then pull your horse behind the field and track straight accross to the rails, you lose about 15m as against runnning straight to the first corner, so even if you get the rails for the whole race you still wont even make up the 15m you lost at the start.

Some more reason why running wide is sometimes a better option

# your on a horse who gets back in the field, but who likes to make a sustained run (without interuption) from the 800m mark, you would have to be a fool to hope to get a rails run all the way thru the field.

# your on an odds on pop whos midfield and travelling well, again it would be foolish to risk an inside run

# your on a horse who spits the dummy when it gets bumped or cramped

# the leaders, or horses directly in front of you are suspect at the distance or have poor form

# you want to follow the favourite

# the leading pack have gone hell for leather in front, and will surely tire

#you want to hem in a certain horse

# your riding a horse who wont take openings

# your horse hangs to the centre of the track when whippped

the list is endless, jockeys are riding horses , not machines, they have a mind of there own, and are all individuals

[ak47]

there are alot of pros for running wide but more cons

the element of covering more distance is the number 1 factor

and it doesnt matter if ur wide or inside down a straight

i am more or less talking about the bends

sometime going wide is the better option........more times its not

i would not wanna be 6 wide the whole race running off the track like veandicross

they praise big runs from the outside - why?? coz its proven harder to win due to the extra distance covered

i am not trying to argue but i wonder why each race has a bunch of thoroughbreds all bunch up on the inside of the track, not the outside.

what i am saying is this game shoud punish you for running wide

if i am the lone horse, a gallop around the track in solo......

i have 2 runs

1st is on the rail
the 2nd is 6 wide from the rail

this game SHOULD reflect a faster time for the inside run (thus punishing outside runs) provided i ran the identical speed.

i hope to hell if i draw barrier 24, this game doesnt let me win if i am 24 wide the whole race and make no attempt to get on the track proper.

[ak47]

What did u type in on youtube to see this race?, cheers

here mate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5_DDMIOqGQ

courtesy of Dobrien from TRF:D

[Austbloke]

Imagine what a legend the veandercross would of been had it actually won the race!!!!!!!!!!!!

True...... He was an awsome horse
Shows you just how bad the ride was for it to go under.

[Austbloke]

i hope to hell if i draw barrier 24, this game doesnt let me win if i am 24 wide the whole race and make no attempt to get on the track proper.

I've run my best times by getting good runs through the field... You can win running wide but your times wont be as good. It does appear to me that the game takes into account more distance running wide.

In regards to running wide in real races I have no problems with it as long as my horse is making a run from the 600 or so.

You never see a horse win in Aust if its run 4 wide for the whole race (I doubt you'd see that jockey getting to many more rides either). In fact if a horse runs 3 wide & wins its praised for winning after having such a tuff run.

The simple fact that a horse as good as veandicross couldn't do it proves the fact.

[ak47]

I've run my best times by getting good runs through the field... You can win running wide but your times wont be as good. It does appear to me that the game takes into account more distance running wide.

In regards to running wide in real races I have no problems with it as long as my horse is making a run from the 600 or so.

You never see a horse win in Aust if its run 4 wide for the whole race (I doubt you'd see that jockey getting to many more rides either). In fact if a horse runs 3 wide & wins its praised for winning after having such a tuff run.

The simple fact that a horse as good as veandicross couldn't do it proves the fact.

that is pleasing news about the game:D

[INTERACTIVE]

Umm, veandercross went right to the outside fence, he covered an extra 250m, nothing compared to just going 5 or 6 wide. Im not sure we should be using veandercross as an example of running wide???????and if we do well we can say he covered an extra whoppping 250m, went like 50 wide a long way from home against the very best horses in the land and still beat them all bar one?

Covering extra ground around turns in the early stages of a race has less effect on a horses performance than doing it later in the race like around the home turn. Covering extra ground around the first couple of turns is no big deal, its the home turn that really counts.

Watch the big races were the best jockeys compete, you will often find horses going 10 deep around the home turn to obtain an uninterupted run, the jockey's who go for the rails are often on longshots or horses who are not traveling well and need every once of luck to win. (gurners lane beating kingston town)

Honestly, professional jockeys usually choose to go deep and around the field on home turns, maybe you need to actually ride a horse to see how much some of them hate being forced to go thru gaps, hate being pushed against rails, hate having boots dug into them to take an opening, hate having jockeys pulling on the reins (mouths) to slow them up from running into the horse in front of them, hate being clipped by other horses hoofs from tight racing, hate having mud thrown in there eyes and blinding them, hate havng horses that have found trouble, or are tiring falling back on them, hate being kicked and then whipped out of barriers to try and obtain the rails. (horses are animals, not machines, some dont even want to be on a racetrack to start with)

Some horses are just happier and more relaxed (less energy) travelling a little wider and free of all that)

Also note, horses like melbourne cup winner kiwi, who often settled down a clear last place in races with the rail to themselves, still often raced 3 or 4 deep (looks like on the rails from side angle) the whole way, just to keep the horse settled and ready to make its move without having to rein it out or worry about horses droppping back on it.

Of course its best to have a beautiful run along the rails, but just becasuse a horse runs wide does not mean it cant and should not win.

[ak47]

yes i agree interactive

i was more talking about running wide the whole race thats all

i admit i prefer my horses swooping them on the outside uninterupted, over the final 600m

but i cant stand it when a jockey cant find cover during the middle part of a race - especially a 3200m melbourne cup.

if you look at the previous thread - i have a video where if u get caught in the middle, boxed, on a champ, only a champ can adjust and come back!!!:D

[INTERACTIVE]

Yes, well i tested the game allmost as soon as i recieved it, to do this i went to the outside fence, and yes, you cant win doing that which is good, unlike playstation that i only had a few races on because of this.

The game punishes you for going wide, but rightly not to the extent that it means you cant win.

The game also punishes you for gettting checks on the rails etc, but rightly also not to the extent that you still cant win.

All im saying is if your back in the field 9 times out of 10 your better off taking off around the field and running wide to get a free run. (im not saying go to the outside fence)

Horses running on the pace have worked to get there, and other horses on the rails will have holdups, so you can afford to lose some ground by going wide if your horse is travelling well and you want to give yourself every chance of winning.

Watch the melbourne cup and the horses fan on the home turn and you will see professional jockeys do exactly as im saying, if you think you know more about riding winners, and placing horses to win, than the actualy jockeys doing it, good on you. (this is not directed to any specific person in this forum)

And yes, i agree with you also aka (great video that one)

[andytaker]

Did anybody see this years Goodwood Handicap from Morphettville??

A very interesting race if anybody can you tube it.

The rail was apparently off so everyone had been coming about 4 or 5 wide on Sraightening.

In the Goodwood over 1200m

One horse came out 30wide on the outside fence and another stayed on the rail, it was a great race and there was not much between them at all

I actually cant remember who won, but it was a great race to see a horse came 30 wide on Straightening and either just win or just lose

[Austbloke]

I don't think ak47 or myself ever said going wide to make a run was bad. In fact in my last post I said I have no problems with a jockey making a run from the 600 or so.
The way it was brought up in this thread was horses sitting wide in the run.

Anyway all things aside.... I don't care if my horse come wide gets blocked or misses the start..... As long as it wins :D

Looking forward to racing with you guys online in the coming weeks..... ;)

[INTERACTIVE]

yeah well i guess its personal opinion, but ground lost early in a race, either by missing the start, checks, going wide, etc, does not count for a lot in the end, probably you only lose 1 lengh at the finish for every 3 you lose early in a race, so sitting wide thru out a whole race is probably not that bigger deal (as apposed to just the home turn), i know the press drum it up but they have to rave about something to get the publics interest, i allways say back the plain horse who had a perfect run last start, with a rails run and no checks, as horses who were unlucky get way over rated by the press (sheep punters listen to the press)and start way under the odds next start. How often do you see horses that run wide, miss starts, get checked, and finish quickly, start favourites allmost every start, but rarely manage a win.

If a horse wins and the 2nd horse was really unlucky, if they meet again next start i will always back the horse that won last start, and get better odds than the supposed unlucky horse, and usually its the same result, easy money.

[INTERACTIVE]

If you happy to make a run out wide from 600m out, you probably have to be in position to do so about 800m out, so i sort of think why not just run 2 or even 3 deep for the early part of the race anyways, then your clear of trouble, can make your move just as you wish, and have little chance of getting hemmed in on the rails and being forced to try a risky rails run.

Its only 1 or 2 turns, there probably running at a comfortable pace, so you wont lose to much ground either, even if you even have to go 4 deep on the first turn.